Nature's Number 6 by CarbonNYC via Flickr
First, a question for a friend: let’s say you were expecting a daughter. Not only is she going to be your last child, you’re the youngest sibling, so this baby is probably the last in her generation. You’d love to pass on your maiden name. Trouble is, your maiden name sounds exactly like a popular name, but with a totally different spelling.
For argument’s sake, let’s say the name is Reily. It looks like a creative respelling of a popular name, but it isn’t – it’s the most meaningful name you can imagine. You could respell it to Riley. But you’d rather not.
What would you do? Use Reily, knowing there’s no name more meaningful? Accept the less meaningful Riley in an attempt to save your daughter spelling hassles? Or are there so many girls called Rylee that you have to spell everything anyhow?
Opinions appreciated!
Elsewhere online:
- I’ve been thoroughly enjoying Harry’s Law, the new Kathy Bates show on NBC. The character’s name is Harriet, one of my favorites. Harriet left the US Top 1000 after 1970, and since then the only high-profile bearer of the name was the shrewish Mrs. Oleson on Little House on the Prairie. I keep expecting to see her make a comeback. Nickname option Hattie seems like a logical successor to Maddie and Abby;
- This post at Swistle discusses the name Hazen, for a boy. For the parents, it’s the name of a favorite place, a state park in Vermont. But it also sounds like the kind of invented boy name we continue to hear. A friend of mine mentioned she knows a newborn boy named Vallen;
- You Can’t Call It “It” skims the London Telegraph birth announcements. It’s always a great read, but my favorite was Hero Genevieve Tallulah, a sister for Gus, Daisy, Archie, and Conrad. I’d love to know the older kids’ full names;
- Look at this middle name, spotted by For Real: Roman Starling. It’s a great combination of the very masculine and the completely unexpected;
- I try to read Voornamelijk, despite the fact that it is in Dutch. Her recent report on reality TV from Europe turned up an intriguing list of contestants: Dilara, Lois, Meron, and Zira;
- Word is out that the most popular names in Germany for last year were Sophie and Maximilian. Despite being known for their restrictive laws regarding given names, quite a few unusual choices made it through, including Kix and Belana;
- I love this story about a baby named after chorus girl Evelyn Nesbit at Nancy’s site.
I am absolutely bursting with excitement over my post at Nameberry for Monday. The names range from Amoret to Sedley, Lucien to Arthemise.
Hollywood gave us just two announcements this week, but oh, what names!
- We learned that Sacha Baron Cohen and Isla Fisher named Olive’s little sister Elula. There’s a good analysis of the name’s style up at NameCandy and Elisabeth at You Can’t Call It “It” is reporting that Elula’s full name is Elula Lottie Miriam;
- Gretchen Mol chose Winter Morgan for Ptolemy’s little sister. I like Winter just fine, but I was expecting something far more daring – Yseult or Persephone, maybe.
Which reminds me – do you know the most popular season name? This article at Babble reads “We all know at least one Summer, right? And Autumn isn’t unheard of. But Winter? That’s a first.” Actually, Autumn is in the US Top 100, while Summer has never ranked that high. And can Winter really be called a first when Nicole Richie’s Harlow Winter Kate is so visible? Nancy tells us that 259 girls received the name in 2009, meaning that Winter ranked just a few spots beyond the Top 1000.
As for Spring, there’s always Oscar-nominated actress Spring Byington.
Speaking of spring, remember that voting for March Madness preliminaries for both Boys and Girls is open until Friday morning.
Thanks all for this week. As always, thanks for reading!
Personally I would think, put the Reilly-esque name in the middle spot, as I am not into surname/androgenous names for girls. But if the parents love that naming style, then they shouldn’t be held back by spelling problems if that particular spelling has personal significance to them. Having to spell out your name is just par for the course in life, and no big deal really. Heck, I’m a Jane and I can’t tell you how many people ask if it’s “with a y” – ie Jayne. I think people are used to variant spellings these days. After all, even the “classic” names have variations – Catherine/Katherine, for example.
If you are naming a baby after someone, then I personally think it makes most sense to use the same spelling.
I’ve actually been thinking about Starling a lot for a boys middle name. My grandfather, great-grandmother & great-grandfather on my mother’s side all have bird names. Lark, Lark Jr. & Dovie. To somewhat carry on the trend I’ve been thinking Wren for a girl and I came across Starling for a boy, though I don’t think I’d have the guts to use it for a first name, I LOVE it in the middle name spot.
Roman Starling is a great combo. My favorite at the moment is Jude Starling.
Oh that’s really fun! What a great tradition.
Regarding Hero Genevieve Tallulah, I think that the parents gave the first child two middle names and then thought that they had to give all the other kids two middle names as well so they wouldn’t feel short-changed. It’s hard enought to think of two names that flow well together, but three? Hero Genevieve is great. I would have stopped there.
Elula makes me think of “uvula,” so no.
And I say go with Riely, for the first or middle slot. As someone who grew up having to constantly respell her name and it was still getting butchered (and my name was Christina! It was a really common name!) I can tell you that it’s not a big deal. I actually had a lot of fun seeing how badly people screwed it up!
That may be true, Isadora. Still, I like Hero Genevieve Tallulah, even though I can see that something like Hero Genevieve Rose or Hero Tallulah Joan would’ve been more pleasing.
No real reason to post this, I just thought that you would be as endlessly fascinated by this sibset as I am. Click on “meet the kids” to find their full names: http://bakersdozen.typepad.com/
If the name’s truly like Reily, then it doesn’t matter how it’s spelled. As you can see from the comments above, people are more likely to spell is Reilly than Riley. So there’s no “correct” way, Just as Caitlin became Kaitlyn and 47 other variants.
Like Harriet as a name (it’s the -ette thing). Plus there’s Harriet in “So I Married an Ax Murderer”) – Harriet, sweet Harriet…
I love that movie!
I’d tell her to go with it for Reily. Like Emmy Jo and other commenters have said before, if she doesn’t mind calling her daughter by the name Reily everyday, then use it as her first name- spelling difference and all. It’s too meaningful to start mucking about with it. Reily doesn’t seem to be a classic enough name to where minor variations in spelling really throw it off (unlike, say, Emily being Emmalee), so if her family name is similar in feel to Reily, then there’s a good possibility they will have to spell it for people anyway, no matter which version they choose. I had to go back through this comment to retype it with only one “l” actually, because “Reilly” looks correct to me, not “Riley.”
I love Hero for a girl! My favourites out of those names, though, were Henrietta Daphne Mabel and Henry Capability. I love virtue names (my genealogy has turned up multiples of Patience, Mercy and Comfort), but I feel like I rarely hear them on boys!
And I love the name Roman Starling.
While I’m generally in favour of going with what is arguably the most traditional/common spelling, when it comes to family names I say go with what’s accurate for your family. For example, Roseanna’s name is spelt the way it is because she was named for her grandmother. If the name hadn’t been a family name we never would have used it. Since we decided to honour a family member, we figured we might as well go with what’s traditional in our family circle. However, I’ll join in the chorus by saying that when it comes to surnames on girls I like them in the middle spot.
More of my own opinions:
– I’m not a big season name fan, but I definitely prefer the more popular Autumn over the dated-sounding Summer and newcomer Winter. I think it’s my secret love of silent ens.
– Hero is a girl’s name, but Hero Genevieve Tallulah sounds like a bit much. Of course, my own daughter’s name is quite lengthy, and the names we’ve selected for our next mystery-gender baby are long too (just a month and a half left!). Perhaps I shouldn’t judge.
– I like Elula, although not as much as Eulalie.
– I just can’t love Harriet. Believe me, I’ve tried. It doesn’t work for me.
Amidst the repetitive questions and general near-term-time snarkiness that make up most of my birth board’s current posts is a rather fabulous thread about our grandmother’s names. The names range from the traditional (Anne, Mary, Margaret), to the currently hot again (Charlotte, Stella, Ella), to the purely delightful. Some of my favourites include:
Maxine
Elva
Willa
Edmonia
Bernadine
Alveda
Mina pronounced MY-nah
Sina pronounced SY-nah
Doris
Dortha
Wava
Isyphenia
Mildred
Florida (a great-great-grandmother)
Winifred
Geneva
Drusilla
Gladys
Olga Elgie
Oleda
Theda
Eula May (there were a lot with either May or Mae as a middle name)
Georgette
I love Drusilla! These are fascinating – I wonder if anyone knows the story of HOW their grandmothers got their names? I’m guessing not … but I’d love to know the stories behind Oleda, Isyphenia, Sina, Wava … actually ALL of these!
My great-aunt was Drusilla, and my father told me that all the kids called her Dracula, LOL! It has ruined the name for me!
Now that is funny!
Mine were Ozella and Eva. Ozella had a sister named Hazel, and Eva had sisters named Velma and Faye.
My grandmother’s names were Gladys Mildred and Anna Katerina. My great-grandmother Mercedes gave all her children American names so they would “fit in.” Gladys always hated her name and wished it was something Spanish. Most of the time people called her Gladiola, after the flower. I’m not sure about Anna Katerina, but I think she was named after family.
Ah, I love the idea of Gladiola! Interesting … Gladys’ story is quite like my own. I wonder how many of us have names that are given in reaction to our parents’ dislike of their names. I do, and my daughter does – and my granddaughter probably will someday, too!
Back on names from seasons– I went to elementary school with a girl named Primavera. She went by Prima, was beautiful even then, and had long straight brown hair that went all the way down her back. I guess even in first grade she (and her name) made quite an impression on me. 😀
So Foxy’s source for the Elula reveal last year was accurate. I don’t mind it. I’m sure it’s causing some dramatic pearl clutching in the name-o-sphere which I find slightly puzzling given the name seems so innocuous. I’ll save my my WTF? for Locklyn Kyla and others.
I would use Reily. “It’s a family name” makes up for a multitude of name sins, IMO. Using a maiden name in front or middle is nearly always a classy move.
Hm. I’d probably use Reily. As you said, Riley is spelled everything from Riley to Rylee to Rylie to Reilly, my personal favorite. So, is Reily really that weird? Nope. And, seriously, significance outweighs the potential spelling issues that Riley would necessarily bring anyhow…
Elula was a shocker, even though Lula and Lulu (for Tallulah or Louisa) are awesome nicknames. I find Elula just a tad bit challenging to say, and I dislike it’s similarity to Mama Isla’s name. Plus, after Olive, I suppose I was hoping for something equally quirky and sweet – Ada, Briony, Dinah, Eloise, Nell, or Prudence?
Winter Morgan is okay – I do like Winter, more than Summer but less than Autumn. However, as a sister for Ptolemy John, I was sort of hoping for an Aurelia Margo or something, right?!
Name sighting for me? Laith. Older gentleman. Eh, not in love.
I know of a Winter (born in August) – she must be 10+. There’s a Summer in my daughter’s Kindergarten. Don’t know any Autumns personally.
Starling seems like Sterling meets Sparrow.
Hazen is a bit too close to Hazel and “hazing” for me personally. Though I do like that it has special meaning for the parents.
In local name news – close friends had their ‘gender surprise’ baby and named her Lucy…after I told them that that’s the girl name we have picked out for our ‘gender surprise’ baby (due same week as theirs.) Told the news to our 5 year old daughter and she’s all “What?! We can’t use that now. They just used it!” I guess she inherited my preference for names that you don’t already know someone with! 😛 No word on a middle name and they may also be going with a longer form of Lucy on the birth certificate. (I’ve been trying to talk DH into Lucinda since 2005 and more recently when it was NOTD at my request. So we’ll see if that’s their favourite longer form too.) We are still planning on using Lucy (it’s a family name) if this baby is a girl. In which case she’ll be starting out as Lucy B. in the church nursery & mutual friends will think we lack name ideas of our own. Bah humbug! Maybe we’ll have a boy anyway and it’s all moot.
You have now given me a love for Lucinda… I have never even thought of it before!
Yey! Did you see: https://appellationmountain.net/2011/02/02/baby-name-of-the-day-lucinda/ ?
On the topic of Reily. I have some experience with this. One of my best friend’s maiden name was Matsyn and she used it on her friend daughter in the first name spot. She has had people snarkily tell her that she spelled Madison wrong. She just simply replied that actually Matsyn is spelled exactly right! I say if you friend loves the idea of Reily in the first spot she should go with it!
My maiden name was Halen and I was going to use it in the middle name spot if Hermione had been a boy.
I am not in love with Elula but then I don’t like Olive at all either. I do like Winter but I really dislike the season so I wouldn’t use it. I do know both a Summer and an Autumn.
I ran into a mom the other day with a daughter name Allouette. I really really like this idea for a new twist on a nature name since it means ‘lark’ in french. Plus it has its own song! I actually said something to her and then she actually about flipped out when she found out that I named my daughter Hermione… I think that Hermione might have a new play mate (is a few weeks old to young to have friends?)
*First daughter
Sounds like a great way to make a new friend! 🙂
Harriet the Spy cemented my love of the name from an early age (and it’s a great book Bek!) so I share that with you.
I’m 100% in favor of Reilly, and I also love the idea of Ptolemy and Yseult! That would have been gorgeous.
The mentions are so appreciated Abby. I’ll have another round of Telegraph sibsets tomorrow, and speaking of names, March Madness is super fun. Look forward to tomorrow’s Nameberry!
I was probably in a weird phase when I read it, and I’m sure I’ll be giving it another chance as my own girl grows… It may have to do with Michelle Trachtenberg as the lead in the movie version. She annoyed me on Pete & Pete, hahaha!
Agreed with most everyone – Reily in the middle is preferable. But if she wants to use it as first, I’d say go with the original. It seems the entire purpose behind the name is to pass on the meaningful familial tie, and by respelling the name, all ties are lost… Some kids who are given family names that require some explanation seem to have an awkward struggle for a time, but grow to love the name as they mature. And some completely hate them for all their lives. Helpful, right?
My first Harriet thought is always Harriet the Spy. I don’t know why, because I don’t particularly remember liking the book, but it sticks with me. I’m also not a big fan of the name, and Harry really doesn’t appeal to me. Harry = Hairy in my mind (short vs. long A and all that jazz)
Re: Reily — My grandmother’s maiden name was Ryon. It became my father’s middle name, brother’s middle name and nephew’s middle name. Yes, the correct spelling has to be clarified, but rarely because it is their middle name.
My favorite names from today’s post are Winter and Miriam.
When my parents chose my nickname, Katy, they chose the less-common spelling because it had meaning for them (honoring a relative), and spelling it “Katie” did not hold the same meaning. When I was growing up, I was irritated by the spelling issues but now I love that they chose meaning over ease of use. This may not be as extreme an example as Reily’s, but that’s been my experience. Another example: Madigan is a family name that I keep on my list of future daughters’ names even though I know that it would be perceived as an alternate form of Madison, and that with Maddie as a nickname, everyone would assume her name was Madison or Madeline. Those issues don’t bother me as much as they would for a name that has no special meaning to me.
Other comments:
— Abby, can you help me understand what you see in Harriet? I want to like it, but I just don’t. It’s the right era and everything — but it just sounds so unattractive.
— I don’t mind Elula, and I’m surprised it’s getting such negative reactions. Sure, Olive and Elula is a bit of a tongue-twister, but Elula is certainly pretty, and it sounds like a name that is meaningful to the parents.
I have a thing for names that start with H – Hester, Harriet, Henry, Hermione, Huxley, Hendrix. It might pass – I can’t recall when it started, and it really is kind of bizarre. Harriet rises to the top because a) I do like her clunky qualities; b) I’ve never really loved multi-syllable names that end in -a. I think my least favorite girls’ name is Alyssa; c) I adore the nickname Hattie; d) she’s just the tiniest bit French with that -et ending.
Mostly I like the idea that Harriet sounds like a suffragette – smart, crusading, not afraid to stand out of the crowd.
I must also be influenced by what kids are being named in my neighborhood – there are two Hazels, a Muriel, an Ida … Harriet wouldn’t be a surprise ’round here.
A Muriel! That’s the second young Muriel I’ve heard of recently – I must tell my mother, whose name is Muriel, and who loathes it. Mind you, we live in New Zealand, and the Australian film Muriel’s Wedding has pretty much ruined that name around here, hee hee!
I used to adore the name Mariel – Muriel’s temporary other name in the movie – but it wouldn’t work with a last name that ends in -el. Great movie, though – I laugh every time I watch it.
Does your friend like her maiden name as a first name? In other words, does she think “Reily” is what she would want to call her daughter every day, or is she just wanting to use it because it’s a meaningful family name?
If she really loves the name as a first name, and if she doesn’t mind picking something popular, I’d advise her to just use “Reily” (or “Mattison” or whatever) as is. It will cause a few spelling troubles for her daughter, but I think her daughter would prefer having the meaningful family name instead of a “butchered” version — a popular name that sounds just like the meaningful family name. Having a meaningful name is worth undergoing a few spelling hassles.
Since Reily/Riley and Mattison/Madison and whatnot are not my personal naming style, if I were in her shoes, I would use the family name as a middle name. I’d pick something like Johanna Reily or Clara Mattison. This would be a good option if she’s not in love with the idea of giving her daughter such a popular name. But if she likes the name, despite its popularity, there’s no good reason not to use it up front as is.
Totally agree!
And I do think there are enough Rileys that you’d have to spell it anyway. The one I know (age 1) is spelled “Ryleigh”.
I know a Ryleigh also – elementary school aged… brother Huds0n and brand new sister Row@n….
As someone with a surname that’s gone to the girls, I’d say (along with just about everyone else) Reily belongs in the middle, as is. If my kids weren’t using my maiden name as their surname, it would’ve been their middle.
I’m not so thrilled with Elula. Middles never concern me (put whatever you want in the middle,I don’t care), but Olive & Elula? sounds awful coming out of my mouth. If it works for them, *shrug* oh well. Hero doesn’t bother me on a girl *or* a boy. And I thought Heroine was pass
I would put Reilly in the middle spot rather than use some creatively spelled version of Reilly as a given name. I know several women who have a family surname as their middle name so I can’t think of it as an odd thing to do.
Hero Genevieve Tallulah sounds ridiculous to my ears. It’s what I think of as a Cabbage Patch doll name – three names just randomly thrown together by some computer program. I can see the appeal of names from Greek and Roman mythology, but so many of them are just not that usable in today’s world. I don’t know that it was ever common practice to name one’s children after gods and goddesses, though I do know some modern-day women with Greek heritage named Athena and Aphrodite. It can be a lot to live up to!
I think Winter is more wearable than Ptolemy, though I imagine little Ptolemy is already going by some sort of nickname. Elula is fine on its own, but I find it a little weird that she has one middle name that’s a nickname (Lottie) and one that isn’t. I know the nickname-as-name trend is thriving in the UK, though.
Havoye, that’s a really interesting question – I don’t think there were many cultures where naming a child after a god was acceptable. (At least not actually giving the god’s name … though names that honored a god are out there.) I’ve heard that there were times when Mary was considered too holy a name to give a child, but I’ve never confirmed it. Except that there are exceptions – Dionysus, for one – must have been fairly common. He’s the source of Dennis and Dwight.
The middle is a complete free-for-all, if you ask me. As a first name, I can certainly understand a ‘responsible’ namer considering the difficulty of a spelling that is not the most-used. But, really, I think we are all used to some names being spelled in an unexpected way and while it may increase the burden a little, if there is a real meaning behind it, then why not? Cre8tif spellings abound and there are tons of variants of names that are less often seen and most of us just take it as par for the course. Sure, there are some who feel there is only one true way to spell something and yes, some people will judge. But as it’s said, “those who matter won’t judge and those who judge don’t matter”, so I’d say, use the meaningful name and spelling.
I’d go with Reily, although I hate the name on a girl.
Elula is very interesting, sounds different to everything else around.
Hero on a girl? Seriously? Seems parents no longer can see the difference between masculine and feminine forms. Heroine would be the correct choice.
Winter is ok I guess.
Perhaps, but Hero was used by Shakespeare for his female character in Much Ado About Nothing, plus Hero appears as a she in Greek legend, she was the lover of Leander. So Hero does have historical use as a female name, much like Douglas.
Although, I do still maintain it to be an odd choice for a girl today, times have moved on and I don’t think the historical connections will save her from the history books.
Lucy, thanks for mentioning Douglas – that’s one of my favorite name facts, and I haven’t thought about it in years!
What? Douglass has been used for women?! You’ve got to tell me the story behind this one.
Emmy Jo, I think the first Douglas – either gender – was Lady Douglas Howard. The Douglas family was about as powerful as it gets in the sixteenth century. Then again, the Howards were nothing to sneeze at. Lady Douglas’ godmother was a Douglas, so that may be where the name came from. I don’t have a clue how many women were named Douglas in the era, but I assume it was more than just her – I found a second aristocratic female Douglas in the early 1600s. I can’t recall where I first stumbled over the reference, but I know it was fiction.
I was just going to comment about the Greek connection. Hero, as a name, is absolutely feminine.
Hero is a girls name.
Absolutely! Hero as a noun is masculine, but as a pronoun is feminine. Sounds odd to those who haven’t heard of it before though, I bet!
I would work on the principle that in the middle name slot, go for using Reily. I’ve seen so many weird and wonderful things in the middle name slot, I see it as a child’s secret plum, or apple. They know they have a super tasty middle name, probably more meaningful than most, but they can chose to share their plum if they wish, or keep it to themselves.
I love food analogies 😀