Name Help is a series at Appellation Mountain. Every week, we discuss reader’s name questions, usually on Tuesdays and Fridays. We’re relying on thoughtful comments from the community to help expectant parents narrow down their name decisions. Thank you in advance for sharing your insight! To have your question considered, email appmtn (at) gmail. Looking for your own private #namehelp post? Order one here.
FIGHTING OVER A (NICK)NAME
Gina writes:
We named our daughter 13 years ago, and we’ve been perfectly happy with our decision. Her first name is unisex, very unusual (never in the Top 1000) and her middle name is Elizabeth. As she’s gotten older, she’s told us that she’s uncomfortable with how different her first name is, and even though that breaks my heart more than a little, that’s why we gave Elizabeth as her middle name. She now goes by Ellie at school and with friends, and we’re trying to use it at home, too.
The trouble is that my much-younger sister has just had a baby, her first, and named her Eleanor. She wants to call Eleanor Ellie, and objects that we’re “stealing” her daughter’s name. This means that she continues to call our daughter by her disliked first name, and my mom is doing the same now, too. (Though she initially seemed fine with calling our daughter Ellie.) They both say it is “too confusing.”
It’s all so stupid because:
- There are so many other Ellies! My daughter has three in her middle school, and I expect there will be more in her high school next year.
- The girls won’t be confused. They have different last names and probably won’t go to the same schools. Even if they did, they’re 13 years apart. Who would ever even remember?
- My daughter only has so many options. My sister wants my Ellie to go by another Elizabeth nickname. When I stated back that we could just call her daughter Nora or something like that, my sister was annoyed. And this was already happening before my niece was born, so it’s not as if my sister didn’t know Ellie might be an issue.
Do I hope my daughter reverts to her birth name and makes this easier? I guess part of me does. But that’s not something I’m going to fight about right now, and I don’t understand why we can’t just either both have Ellies or my sister can choose a different nickname if it really bothers her.
Help, please!
Please read on for my response and share your thoughtful suggestions in the comments.
PEOPLE SHOULD BE CALLED WHAT THEY WANT TO BE CALLED
Abby replies:
I am so sorry you’re in the middle of this. Let’s start with two principles I often rely on:
- First, Steve’s principle. People should be called what they want to be called. This principle is named in honor of my very fair-minded, big-hearted uncle. Calling someone by their preferred name is bedrock to any kind of relationship.
- Second, choose the relationship, not the name. If situations were reversed, and I were advising your sister, I’d tell her to call her Eleanor something else. Options abound! Or to simply make peace with two Ellies.
The problem, of course, is that you’re already following this advice. You’re honoring what your daughter wants to be called and you’re choosing your relationship with her over your own personal feelings.
You’re doing the absolute right thing by honoring your daughter’s request.
But you already know that.
Your question is about how to handle your sister and mom, and their decision to ignore your daughter’s request in favor of their personal preferences.
It’s tempting to suggest something petty. Refer to your niece as Nora, exclusively. If she can choose your daughter’s name, then why can’t you re-name hers?
But I think you’re better off with a direct and unflinching approach. Choose a phrase and repeat it. Something like:
She prefers to be called Ellie, and if you love her, you’ll respect her decision.
And then set a limit. If you have to correct someone once? That’s normal. I’m sure that, after 13 years, you find yourself slipping. Giving grandma grace is appropriate – as long as she’s trying.
But you know the difference. If it’s clearly a deliberate mis-use of the name your daughter has rejected? Then you can trot out your rehearsed line with a little bit of frost.
It’s also worth considering your options. Can you end a visit or a phone call if it happens more than twice? Might you even consider limiting your extended family’s involvement in certain types of events. For example, if your daughter plays soccer, make it clear that the only name they’ll be cheering on from the sidelines is Ellie.
I do think that there’s room for compromise. If your mom defaults to calling your daughter Honey or Sweetheart or some other term of endearment, and that works for everyone? Embrace it, at least in the short term.
The situation with your sister feels more fraught, but I think the same rules apply. Don’t argue about it. Call your niece Ellie – or maybe “your Ellie” or “sister’s Ellie” in family situations where there’s room for confusion. And then rely on your chosen phrase and follow the same two-strikes boundary or whatever works for you.
One last thought:
Our children own their names.
It’s sometimes painful. But mostly? Raising children is about figuring out their gifts and interests and what makes them a whole, independent person with ideas of their own. As parents, we can fight it. Or we can guide them. Most of us quickly figure out that crushing a child’s spirit by demanding blind obedience is not a great long-term strategy. But it is tempting, when they’re little and rules are far more black-and-white, to imagine that we’ll always be in the driver’s seat.
Which is all a very long way of saying that I wonder if your sister will understand completely … in another five or ten or 16 years.
But you can’t wait that long. Make your choice, communicate your strategy with your daughter and get on the same page before the next time you’re around extended family.
And know that yes, families can thrive with cousins sharing a nickname. They cannot be strong and healthy when others refuse to see them as they truly are.
Your sister and mom are being ridiculous. Your daughter started going by this name before your niece was born and named. I agree that you should call your niece Ellie and insist that family members do the same for your child, or you won’t be around them.
Oh for goodness sake, I’m all for supporting new mothers in the days and weeks after giving birth but your mother is letting your sister be a brat. They both knew when your sister was pregnant not only that your daughter was going by Ellie but also a lot of people around your sister were call the bump Nora already*, so why on earth seconds after birth does your sister insist that her daughter** must be called Ellie. Fair enough if they don’t know that the reason your daughter doesn’t use her first name is because it makes her feel strange, however surely they notice how she reacts when they use it. I assume that prior to your daughter insisting on being called Ellie they were calling her Elizabeth quite happily, sit them down and explain to them that she hates her first name*** and that if they continue to call her by it instead of Ellie or even Elizabeth then you may stop seeing them as often. I’m sure once the know their hurting your daughter by using her hated first name they’ll stop.
*= Whether your sister was doing it is neither here nor there
**= And only her daughter
***= As much as it may hurt you
You are doing the right hting. Support your daughter in her choice. Remind your Mom that supporting her granddaughter isnt at the expense of your sister — she absolutely can do both. Remind your sister this isn’t about her relationship with you but rather your daughter coming into her own. Both your Ellie’s will need support as they grow. This is one of so many times that will be true. Your sister’s Ellie will never remember a world where her cousin isn’t Ellie so t will seem normal to her and maybe really cool to have such a bond with her older cousin. No one needs to make this weird.
Bottom line, your daughter is now Ellie. Period. This isn’t a debate. It is family that has to get on board. And how quickly they do that speaks volumes about their character.
Hang tight mamma. Again, you are doing the right thing.
Ooh. How about Grandma nns of Bee and Lee? Big Ellie (elizaBEth) and Little Ellie (eLEanor). Maybe even Honey Bee and Happy-Lee?!? This way Grandma can stay blissfully above it all.
Also, calling someone by a name they have actively chosen not to be, seems unnecessarily hurtful. Teenage is hard. Kindness is king.
I disagree with any implication that there’s “baby name stealing” going on here. What you want to be called yourself is a different, and higher priority, decision than what you would like to call a small, yet-to-be-born person who might feel all kinds of ways about the name Ellie. It’s entirely possible that the niece is named Eleanor and never ends up being called Ellie, or is for a few years and then announces that she’s actually an Araminta (or an Edward!).
Furthermore, whether or not “baby name stealing” is a legitimate conflict between adults who are having children, I think it’s unfair to hold a 13-year-old to the standard of knowing and caring about her aunt’s baby name choices. She wants to be Ellie. She’s going to be Ellie at school regardless. Everyone needs to deal with that.
I agree with pretty much everything in the article, but I’d add that the LW should talk to Ellie about how she wants to handle things with her aunt. I think the LW should make it clear that she’s on her child’s side and is happy to leave or hang up or stop inviting the aunt to things if she persists in using the wrong name, but it’s possible the child herself would prefer a different approach. At the very least, she’s old enough to be part of the decision-making process.
Sarah, that’s a really good point. The 13 y.o. is almost certainly aware of the drama, and discussing it openly is the right call.
You, as Ellie’s parent, don’t control her feelings about her name, the name she chooses to use, or how she feels about her family disrespecting her wishes. You seem to understand this in a way that many parents fail to, and I commend you for supporting your daughter. That means a few things:
1. I think you should (mostly) follow her lead when it comes to dealing with your mom and sister calling her by her disliked first name. If she’s okay with making an exception for them? Let it be. If she wants help advocating for herself? Abby’s script is a perfect one.
2. It’s worth reminding your mom and sister that Ellie’s name is not for either of them—or you—to choose or dictate. Ellie deserves agency over her own identity and shouldn’t require a rubber-stamp of approval from her parents to go by a different name at her age. (I get the sense that your mom and sister are trying to get you, as Ellie’s parent, to override her choice of name, which is wrong on so many levels that it’s worth explicitly countering.)
No one owns a name, especially not one as popular as Ellie. (In fact, I’d argue that the person who goes by the name has more of a claim to it than the person bestowing it upon someone else.) As someone living in a part of the country where every boy is William Jr. or has Roman numerals after their name, from a big family where multiple girls per generation are named Katherine for a particularly fierce great-grandmother, I have very little sympathy for the “confusing” argument. It’s one thing if Ellie were your mom/sister’s distant relative from across the country that they interact with once every five years. In that situation, I can see where “nickname for a middle name” might be confusing. But as their granddaughter/niece, who they seemingly have far more interaction with? It’s callous, and hurtful.
I hope the spirit of generosity and openness prevails. I also want to highlight this: The solution is most certainly NOT you or most importantly your daughter “putting up” with being called by a name that she dislikes. Having some part of your identity willfully disrespected by loved ones isn’t a viable resolution. If your mom and sister really won’t budge on Ellie, as much as I dislike this option, perhaps they could use a different Elizabeth nickname for your daughter? Or a temporary endearment, as Abby suggests? Bottom line, them making an adjustment of some variety, that your daughter feels comfortable with, signals respect, which is the foundation of a healthy familial relationship. I hope they come around on Ellie.
Your second point IS SO IMPORTANT. Thank you!!
I have questions, some details seem missing. To me, it does matter if your kid had already started going by Ellie (and you sister was aware) when she chose Eleanor with the intention of calling her Ellie. Or did you know your pregnant sister was likely going to choose Eleanor nn Ellie before your daughter floated her alternate name? It’s all moot now because the best time to have a discussion was before the situation happened. But it might help in moving forward.
I don’t agree that it’s okay because Ellie is popular as a nickname. To your immediate family, there should be one. Confusing the grandparents is a valid concern. I’m not surprised your mom is taking your sisters side – it’s a tender time as a new parent, and Ellie is a more direct nickname for your niece. Going by a middle name is one thing, but a nickname of a middle name may be too much some people to wrap their heads around, especially if the name is in competition.
If you (and you daughter) knew the new baby coming would likely be Eleanor probably Ellie, then I think the onus is on you to shrug off your family calling your daughter by her given name.
If your daughter had been going by Ellie socially for weeks, months, years before sister brought up your nieces likely name then it’s on her to use Eleanor in full and ask your mom to do the same.
Also wonder how close you are with your sister or how many siblings you have. Is this par for the course in a rocky dynamic? I agree either way Abby to choose the relationship. But you can only control yourself.
Does your Ellie have thoughts about this? Whatever is happening is a good learning experience in conflict for her.
You’ve got lots of support for your indignation. Thought I’d offer a different view.
You know, I do think we should always give grandparents grace with name changes. (And lots of other name-related things.) It’s a little tougher with our siblings, especially because those relationships can be so complicated.
I come from a family with several repeating names – some given intentionally because they’re significant family names, others by chance. We shrug it off, but not every family feels this way at all!
As for the timing, my impression is that there’s some gray area between when the older Ellie made her choice and the younger sister named her daughter. It’s not helping, you’re right – but I think it’s hard to draw a clear bright line.
Abby and everyone else in the comments is spot on so far. What your daughter wants to be called is her choice and everyone should respect that choice. Tons of people have family members who share names and work around it. Your sister seems to be difficult for the sake of being difficult, especially considering she knew your daughter wanted to be Ellie before her Ellie was even born.
This does seem like a perfect storm of different phases of parenthood/kids growing up colliding, and that’s making it hard for the sister to understand.
It might not actually help to have this conversation, but if LW gets the sense that this point hasn’t been explicitly made, it might be good to say it: Older Ellie’s mom is not the one making this name change- Older Ellie is! LW is struggling a bit with the change, but wanting to do what will make her daughter happy, and after all this is why the middle name was chosen 13 years ago! None of this is meant to steal Baby Ellie’s or her mom’s thunder.
She might not be ready to receive that info and understand it, but I think LW can live with the truth that she and her daughter are not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings; if the feelings are hurt regardless, perhaps it will just take some time. I bet Baby Ellie will LOVE having an older cousin with the same name!
Your sister doesn’t get to dictate what your daughter calls herself or what her friends call her. If she and her grandmother keep calling her by a name she dislikes, their relationships with your daughter will be harmed. Tell your sister to mind her own business. The baby can be Ellie too. You also don’t get to tell your sister what to call her daughter. I’d suggest Big Ellie and Little Ellie and Ellie B and Ellie J to distinguish them or, if you must be formal, Elizabeth and Eleanor.