Naming Baby Number Four: Traditional Names like Clement and Rudy

Name Help is a series at Appellation Mountain. Every week, one reader’s name questions will be discussed. We’re relying on thoughtful comments from the community to help expectant parents narrow down their name decisions. Thank you in advance for sharing your insight! To have your question considered, email appmtn (at) gmail. Looking for your own private #namehelp post? Order one here.

TRADITIONAL, UNEXPECTED NAMES LIKE CLEMENT

Rachel writes:

I am due with baby #4 and am struggling with a name if this baby is a boy.

If it is a girl we plan to name her Agnes Daisy Maria. (Because my husband’s family is very Polish, I’ve also considered naming her Agnieszka, but calling her Agnes.)

It is a tradition to always use Joseph or Maria as a second middle name.

This baby will follow:

• Clement Dominic Joseph
• Robert Dennis Joseph (nickname Rudy)
• Philomena Therese Maria

If it is a boy I like these first names:

• Peter – this is my favorite I think but I don’t think my husband likes it as much as I do
• Nico – I secretly love Nicodemus but since that is a little intense I feel like we would just stick with Nico
• Ambrose – I absolutely love this but my husband is really not a fan
• John Paul – this is my husband’s favorite but I feel weird because of our double middle name tradition. We would call him John Paul like a double first but John Paul (potential middle) Joseph is a lot of names. Unless we just do John Paul Joseph and call him by his first and second?

I am super open to fresh choices. Girl names feel so much simpler to me!

Please read on for my response and leave your thoughtful suggestions in the comments.

AMBROSE, JOHN PAUL, OR SOMETHING ELSE?

Abby replies:

Congratulations on your new baby!

I love your kids’ names. They’re strong and classic and deeply meaningful, but just a little bit unexpected, too.

Let’s start with your current list.

I feel like Clement and Rudy’s brother is obviously Ambrose. It’s great with Philomena, too. They’re all distinct, but feel like they belong in the same house.

Peter seems like a close second. In fact, I’m most strongly tempted by Peter Ambrose Joseph.

And yet … I’ve just taken the two names your husband likes least and put them together. So that’s probably a non-starter.

I want to push for Nicodemus, because I share your love for the name! The New Testament figure is admirable. (He’s a respected man of significant wealth and learning who encourages others to hear Jesus and consider his words before passing judgement.) But I also concede that Nicodemus Middle Joseph Last is … a lot.

So let’s talk about John Paul.

The options are:

• Name him John Paul Middle Joseph LastName – four first names.
• Name him Johnpaul Middle Joseph LastName – three first names, with Johnpaul clearly intended as a double name.
• Name him John Paul Joseph LastName and call him John Paul.

I agree that the most logical approach is John Paul Joseph, called John Paul. We know a few boys with this name, and in every case, their first is John and middle is Paul.

The positives:

• John Paul Joseph is a strong, handsome name that flows together well.
• It’s a familiar double name. John Paul is sort of like Mary Anne. That makes it easier to wear than, say, an unfamiliar combination like Jude Kai or George Ray.

On the negative side:

• You’re missing out on a chance to choose another middle.
• John Paul Joseph is three very familiar choices, so maybe it’s a little less exciting than your other kids’ names.

FRESH SUGGESTIONS

Still, I wonder if there’s another option. Let’s consider some possibilities.

ANOTHER NICO NAME

Before we leave your current list, I wonder if there’s a longer form of Nico that would appeal?

NICANOR – There are some rare Nick names to ponder. I’m a fan of Nicanor. There is a saint by the name, an early martyr, but I think he’s fairly obscure. Nicanor is also strongly associated with Ernest Hemingway. The author named his firstborn John Hadley Nicanor Hemingway. Jack’s bonus middle came from a Spanish matador Ernest admired. I’m not sure if Nicanor is less intense that Nicodemus, but … maybe?

NICOLAI, NIKOLAI – Since you’ve considered Agnieszka, I can imagine the Polish form of Nicholas could be a possible option … except it’s Mikolaj. Mikołaj, to be precise, with the L making more of a W sound. So it’s pretty inaccessible to American English speakers, plus the N-for-M switch makes the nickname Nico pretty confusing. But the -lai ending in Scandinavian and Slavic, and sort of broadly European. I wonder if it would appeal?

NICOLO/NICCOLO – A romance language take on Nicholas that’s very clearly a route to Nico.

NICHOLAS – Classic and not nearly as popular as it was during the 1990s, Nicholas might be a good mix of familiar and traditional, especially with a fun nickname.

MORE NAMES LIKE CLEMENT and AMBROSE TO CONSIDER

CASSIAN – Thanks to Andor, it’s a little Star Wars. But it’s an early saint’s name with a story of its own.

EDWIN – There’s something dapper, even dashing about Edwin.

FELIX – With an auspicious meaning, lucky Felix is a name rising in use today, but with the same style as your older kids’ names.

RAPHAEL – Like Felix, Raphael is a choice parents are liking more and more now. It shortens easily to Rafe, but Raphael is full is appealing, too.

VINCENT – On paper, Vincent is relatively popular. In practice, it seldom repeats.

XAVIER – A thoroughly modern name strongly associated with a 16th century religious leader.

If Peter and Ambrose are truly off the table, I think it’s worth considering John Paul. And if that’s not something that feels quite right?

Nicolo and Felix top my list.

Clement, Rudy, Philomena, and Nicolo. Maybe Nicolo Peter Joseph.

Or Felix. Clement, Rudy, Philomena, and Felix. Felix Nico Joseph.

A NOTE ON AGNES versus AGNIESZKA

Agnes Daisy Maria is a fun, upbeat name. I speak the tiniest smattering of Polish, thanks to my husband’s family. (Mostly I can say courtesy words and follow very simple conversations.) I’m not sure I’d use the Polish spelling, even only a birth certificate. I do wonder, though, if you could call her Angieszka, or even Polish nicknames like Aga or Agusia (or is Jagusia?), for fun.

Readers, over to you! What would you name a brother for Clement, Rudy, and Philomena?